What Is A Wouff-Hong?

The Meaning of the Wouff-Hong in Amateur Radio

"The Wouff-Hong is amateur radio's most sacred symbol and stands for the enforcement of law and order in amateur operation."The Radio Amateur's Handbook, 1930, page 11

The Wouff-Hong and Rettysnitch Legends
This site reachable athttp://wouff-hong.com - OR - http://wouffhong.org as well as at http://rettysnitch.org/

Amateur Radio's traditional and most sacred symbols
Two gruesome instruments of excruciating torture used toenforce law, order, and decency in Amateur Radio operation.,

The Wouff-Hong and Rettysnitch Legends

By Rob L. Dey, KA2BEO1 - September 1997
A wonderful article about these two legends was written by L.B. Cebik, W4RNL2, and appeared in September 1996 QST, on pages 59 and 603. Cebik offered that "We should not be troubled by the size of the task at hand: Curing Amateur Radio of its illegalities and indecencies. We have many more folks available to wield the Wouff-Hong and the Rettysnitch. No, not on others, but on ourselves - to make sure that we set a model for how amateur operations ought to be conducted."
The Wouff-Hong


The Wouff-Hong is used to enforce law and order in Amateur Radio operating work.
"The Old Man" (T.O.M.), originator of the Wouff-Hong and the Rettysnitch, is known to be the one and only Hiram Percy Maxim, W1AW, founder of the American Radio Relay League (ARRL)4 in 1914. T.O.M. wrote his first mention of a Wouff-Hong and a Rettysnitch in 1917. In 1919, the league received an actual Wouff-Hong specimen directly from T.O.M. The first photo of the Wouff-Hong was published in July 1919 QST.

The Rettysnitch

The Rettysnitch is used to enforce decency in Amateur Radio operating work.
In 1921, the Washington DC Radio Club presented the Rettysnitch to the league's traffic manager. According to legend, the club received the Rettysnitch specimen from "The Old Man" himself. Cebik stated that "Even at its first public appearance, two of its teeth were missing, suggesting a long history of necessary and effective use. However, to this day, the Rettysnitch has lost no further teeth. It was ordered to be displayed by its mate." The Wouff-Hong and Rettysnitch stories were retold by Rufus P. Turner, when he wrote "Hamdom's Traditions: A Bedtime Story for Young Squirts" in May 1934 QST. According to Cebik, "In 1930, The ARRL Handbook had pictures of both instruments of enforcement. By 1936, only the Wouff-Hong appeared. By 1947 the Handbook had deleted both photos." An editorial on the Wouff-Hong (without the hyphen) appeared many years later in February 1961 QST. Presently, both of these legendary instruments are on display at the ARRL museum in Newington, CT.
Do the Wouff-Hong and Rettysnitch still hold their mystical power over us today?
L.B. Cebik, W4RNL, answered this question well, when he asked "Why were the Wouff-Hong and the Rettysnitch so powerful to those early hams? Because those hams cared about Amateur Radio in their hearts. They desired that which they knew they could never have: A perfectly law-abiding, decent radio service that would inspire young and old alike to become hams or, lacking the inclination to electronics, to become admirers of hams. Every minute of on-the-air time was a chance to show how noble a pursuit Amateur Radio was and should always be. They feared the Wouff-Hong and the Rettysnitch as instruments of their own consciences, as they strove to meet the standards they set for themselves. And that is where you will find the Wouff-Hong and the Rettysnitch today - deep in your own conscience. If they seem to hold no power, then you know it’s time once more to elevate your standards a notch higher, and then to strive to achieve them perfectly." He added, "May you never deserve their sting."

Saturday Night Live Finally Jabs at Obama

As an avid SNL watcher through the years, I couldn't help but wonder how long it was going to take before SNL would attempt to make fun at Obummer. Sure there were a few slightly funny times before the election when they made the disciples of Obama look stupid, but they were the target not him. And they were pretty funny I'll admit. While they were hesitant in making fun at him, they spared no expense or time, getting Tina Fey to viciously attack Sarah Palin, blasting her and her family. Making them out to be incestuous even. That was the time I had decided not to watch this show ever again. What a disappointment they were to me. They did everything they could to bash her holding back nothing. Maybe they are feeling a little bad now for the way they treated her. If not, then they should be. They sure have treated Obama with kid gloves, and why? Well they did what they could to get him elected, there is no doubt. Yes maybe they could be feeling a little bit bad right about now.

As I sat there watching Saturday night, I couldn't help but yell....FINALLY!!!! Do I seem happy? You betcha I am. Fred Armisen did his impression of Barack Hussein Obama this past Saturday night. I'll admit, he doesn't do the greatest impression of the president but the message was there, loud and clear on prime time, albeit big time network tv. This is very telling of what people are thinking I believe. Looking back, SNL did not fail to show before the election just how silly people looked in their reverence to Obama with the Obama girl and other things portrayed. And they always never failed to make Bush look pretty stupid over and over again. As I said, I've been an avid SNL watcher for years and it seems to me that they pretty much have their finger on the pulse of what America is thinking and feeling.

Now after all this time,they are actually taking a stab at Obummer. Well how about that? I thought this one was surely a long time coming. I'm glad that SNL had the guts to do this. And make no mistake, it did take some guts, or maybe Obama is just not funny material in the way that Bill Clinton is/was. Yes they do make fun of Clinton and it is funny. But at this day and hour, maybe it is the pulse of America who is screaming out loud, ""Obama made all these promises", "you have control up there in Washington" "what is your problem" "you said, you would do this, and that, and everything else," and he's not doing anything.

But yeah, the Nicholas Fehn that Fred plays is great. Hope you can catch Fred Armisen doing some other great characters. He also plays this crazy hippie guy who thinks he's still living in the 60's , and he does Hugo Chavez, and others but Nicholas Fehn is my favorite character.




ARMISEN (as Obama): When you look at my record, it's very clear what I've done so far. And that is...nothing.

AUDIENCE: (laughter)

ARMISEN (as Obama): You think I'm making it up? Take a look at this checklist. Now, on my first day in office...

AUDIENCE: (laughter)

ARMISEN (as Obama): On my first day in office I said I'd close Guantanamo Bay. Is it closed yet? No.

AUDIENCE: (laughter)

ARMISEN (as Obama): I said we'd be out of Iraq. Are we? Not the last time I checked.

AUDIENCE: (laughter)

ARMISEN (as Obama): I said I'd make improvements in the war in Afghanistan. Is it better? No. I think it's actually worse.

AUDIENCE: (laughter)

-----------------------------------------------

After the SNL episode, CNN blew a gastric bypass, wasting no time in coming to the rescue of the ONE. Like he's this poor helpless defenseless lamb who needs defending. Where were they when SNL spit and slandered Sarah Palin? I don't think their was any outrage on their part at all. This is really interesting to see their reaction to this. They took this so serious, and had to go into all this fact checking and crap. Fact checking my arse. SNL ought to take advantage of this and do some CNN imitations . This could get very interesting.

DYLAN RATIGAN: Saturday Night Live taking on President Obama.

CHRIS MATTHEWS: Saturday Night Live was a little rough on the president.

WOLF BLITZER: How should this White House deal with a Saturday Night Live skit like this? Do they just ignore it?

BILL O'REILLY: Saturday Night Live actually mocked Barack Obama.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: With friends like these, the president does not need enemies. Saturday Night Live just skewered the president.

RICK SANCHEZ: What's insult to injury? It's when Saturday Night Live starts to take notice.

LARRY KING: Saturday Night Live skewered the president. Is it a sign of tough times to come?

STEPHANIE MILLER: This sketch missed the mark, because great comedy is based in truth. I'm like, "Are you kidding me?"

KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL: There's a role for humor, but come on.

2009 Huntsville Hamfest - 3980khz Pics From Cactus K4YMB

Pictures are from Cactus K4YMB. Thanks Cactus!

Cactus writes:
We all had the best time today ( Saturday ) at Huntsville.. I talk to hundreds enjoying the show.. I am not going the even begin to put names and calls on all these folks... So please forgive me... I believe this is largest crowd ever at Huntsville... So here we go with the pictures... You may be in some of them.....


Ted Randall's LIVE short wave Radio Show was a big hit...

Ted and family are real professionals...

Nobody does this as well..


Check out the bone yard which was in the main Arena....

Standing room only.....



































































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The Commercial Venders were in the North Hall..
I might add... I believe the North Hall is at least 3 miles from the main Arena,
We all walked our OLD feet OFF !!!!












































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Below are my 2 pics:
The Huntsville hamfest this year was massive. I agree with Cactus the Dealer area did feel like it was three miles from the bone yard. When we were in the boneyard, you could hardly get around there were so many people. We were there on Saturday for a few hours. It was huge. This is the hamfest floor. As you can see the whole floor was covered with ham radio stuff. From push up poles to laptop computers.

Click on these two pics for a larger view. These are large photos.

Ham Radio Q Signs And CW Abbreviations

CW ABBREVIATIONS Prosigns in < >

AA - All after End Of Line AB - All before ABT - About ADEE - Addressee ADR - Address ADS - Address AGN - Again AM - Amplitude Modulation ANI - Any ANS - Answer ANT - Antenna <AR> End of message Stand by; wait - used for the @ sign for E-Mail Addresses New proposal is AC run together	BCI - Broadcast Interference BCL - Broadcast Listener BCNU - Be seeing you BD - Bad BK - Break, Break in BN - All between; Been Separation (break) between address and text; between text and signature. BTH Both BTR - Better BTW - By The Way BUG - Semi-Automatic key BURO -Bureau B4 - Before	C - Yes, Correct CB - CallBook CBA - Callbook Address CFM - Confirm; I confirm CK - Ckeck CKT - Circuit CL - I am closing my station; Call CLBK - Callbook CLD - Called CLG - Calling CMG - Coming CNT - Can't CONDX - Conditions CPI - Copy CQ - Calling any station CRD - Card CS - Call Sign CU - See You CUAGN - See You Again CUD - Could CUL - See You later CUM - Come CUZ - Because CW - Continuous wave
DA - Day DE - From, This Is DIFF - Difference DLD - Delivered DLVD - Delivered DN - Down DR - Dear DSW - Russian CW abbreviation for goodbye. DWN - Down DX - Distance	EL - Element ES - And ENUF - Enough EU - Europe EVE - Evening	FB - Fine Business, excellent FER - For FM - Frequency Modulation: From FONE - Phone FQ - Frequency Freq -- Frequency FWD -- Forward
GA - Go ahead; Good Afternoon GB - Good bye, God Bless GD - Good, Good Day GE - Good Evening GESS - Guess GG - Going GLD -- Glad GM - Good morning GN - Good night GND - Ground GP -- Ground Plane GS - Green Stamp GUD - Good GV - Give GVG - Giving	Error in sending HI - The telegraph laugh; High HPE - Hope HQ - Headquarters HR - Here; Hear, Hour HRD - Heard HRS - Hours HRD -- Heard HV - Have HVG - Having HVY - Heavy HW - How, How Copy?	II -- I Repeat Short form of - Repeat, Say Again INFO - Info JA - Japanese Station K - Invitation To Transmit KA Beginning of message KLIX - KeyClicks KN Go only, invite a specific station to transmit
LID - A poor operator LNG - Long LP - Long Path LSN - Listen LTR - Later; letter LV - Leave LVG - Leaving LW - Long Wire., Long Wave	MA - Millamperes MGR - Manager MI - My MILL - Typewiter MILS - Millamperes MNI - Many MOM - Moment MSG - Message; Prefix to radiogram MULT - Multiplier	N - No, Negative, Incorrect, No More N - Nine (as in Signal Report) NCS - Net Control Station ND - Nothing Doing NIL - Nothing; I have nothing for you; Not In Log NM - No more - Number, Near NW - Now; I resume transmission
OB - Old boy OC - Old chap OK - Correct OM - Old man OP - Operator OPR - Operator OT - Old timer; Old top OW - Old Woman	PBL - Preamble PKG - Package PSE - Please PT - Point PWR - Power PX - Press, Prefix	R - Received as transmitted; Are; R - Decimal Point (with numbers) RC - Ragchew RCD - Received RCVR - Receiver RE - Concerning; Regarding REF - Refer to; Referring to; Reference RFI - Radio frequency interference RIG - Station equipment ROTFL - Rolling on the floor laughing RPT - Repeat, Report RTTY - Radio teletype RST - Readability, strength, tone RX - Receive, Receiver
SA - Say SASE - Self-addressed, stamped envelope SED - Said SAE - Self-Addressed Envelope SEZ - Says SGD - Signed SHUD - Should SIG - Signature; Signal SINE - Operator's personal initials or nickname Out; clear (end of communications, no reply expected.) SK - Silent Key SKED - Schedule SN - Soon SP - Short Path SRI - Sorry SS - Sweepstakes SSB - Single Side Band STN - Station SUM - Some SVC - Service; Prefix to service message SWL - Short Wave Listener /ST short timer on check in	T - Zero (with numbers) TEMP - Temperature TEST - Testing or Contest TFC - Traffic TIA - Thanks In Advance TMW - Tomorrow TKS - Thanks TNX - Thanks TR - Transmit T/R - Transmit/Receive TRBL - Trouble TRIX - Tricks TRX - Transceiver TT - That TTS - That is TU - Thank you TVI - Television interference TX - Transmitter; Transmit TXT - Text	U - You UFB - Ultra Fine Business UNLIS - Unlicensed UR - Your; You're URL - Universal Resource Locator Address For a WebPage URS - Yours
VE Understood (VE) VERT - Vertical VFB - Very fine business VFO - Variable Frequency Oscillator VY - Very	W - Watts WA - Word after WATSA - What Say WB - Word before WD - Word WDS - Words WID - With WKD - Worked WKG - Working WL - Well; Will WPM - Words Per Minute WRD - Word WRK - Work WUD - Would WW - Would WX- Weather	XCVR - Transceiver XMAS - Christmas XMTR - Transmitter XTAL - Crystal XYL - Wife
YF -Wife YL - Young lady YR - Year Z - Zulu Time	30 - I have no more to send 33 - Fondest Regards 55 - Best Success 73 - Best Regards (NOT 73'S) * 88 - Love and kisses (NOT 88'S) 161 - 73+88=161" first came about in FOC circles (First-Class CW Operators' Club, founded by Louis Varney G5RV a number of years ago). The essential meaning is "Best regards to you and your XYL".	? question (like QRL?)

* 73 IS BEST REGARDS. 73'S (PLURAL) MAKES NO SENSE AND IS IMPROPER USE.

The RST (Readability-Strength-Tone) System

The RST System of Signal Reporting has been used for years (circa 1934) as a shorthand method of reporting Readability, Signal Strength and for CW, Tone (i.e., quality of the CW tone). For voice contacts only the R and S are used. The S component is usually not the same as your S-Meter reading as most S-Meters aren't calibrated to track the RST System. The RST is also reported on QSL Cards and must be filled in correctly -- e.g., a 569 report for a Voice Contact is invalid. Note that many DX operations and contest stations merely report 59(9) as a convenience to avoid having to log each of the real reports. A questionable practice but a fact of DXing/Contesting

---

READABILITY
1 -- Unreadable
2 -- Barely readable, occasional words distinguishable
3 -- Readable with considerable difficulty
4 -- Readable with practically no difficulty
5 -- Perfectly readable

SIGNAL STRENGTH
1 -- Faint signals, barely perceptible
2 -- Very weak signals
3 -- Weak signals
4 -- Fair signals
5 -- Fairly good signals
6 -- Good signals
7 -- Moderately strong signals
8 -- Strong signals
9 -- Extremely strong signals

TONE 1 -- Sixty cycle a.c. or less, very rough and broad
2 -- Very rough a.c. , very harsh and broad
3 -- Rough a.c. tone, rectified but not filtered
4 -- Rough note, some trace of filtering
5 -- Filtered rectified a.c.but strongly ripple-modulated
6 -- Filtered tone, definite trace of ripple modulation
7 -- Near pure tone, trace of ripple modulation
8 -- Near perfect tone, slight trace of modulation
9 -- Perfect tone, no trace of ripple or modulation of any kind

Infrequently used is the addition of a letter to the end of the 3 numbers.
These are: X = the signal is rock steady like a crystal controlled signal;
C = the signal is chirpy as the frequency varies slightly with keying;
and K = the signal has key clicks.

X is from the early days of radio when such steady signals were rare.

Today most all signals could be given an X but it is hardly ever used. It is helpful to report a chirpy or clicky signal by using the C or K, e.g. 579C or 579K.

It is very common to send RST reports in abbreviated form, for example 599, is sent as 5NN. "N" in place of the number "9". Also another time saver is for the zero using a long "T". "T" is sent in place of the number zero as in "POWER HR IS 3TT WATTS". There is a number code for all numbers, however, the N and T codes are the most common ones.
Also CW stations sometimes report their zones as "A4" or "A5" instead of sending "14" or "15".

1 = A, 2 = U, 3 = V, 4 = 4, 5 = E, 6 = 6, 7 = B, 8 = D, 9 = N, 0 = T

NEW SYSTEM FOR PSK REPORTING

READABILITY
	R5	95%+	Perfectly readable
	R4	80%	Practically no difficulty, occasional missed characters
	R3	40%	Considerable difficulty, many missed characters
	R2	20%	Occasional words distinguishable
	R1	0%	Undecipherable
	STRENGTH
	S9	Very Strong trace
	S7	Strong trace
	S5	Moderate trace
	S3	Weak trace
	S1	Barely perceptible trace
	QUALITY
	Q9	Clean signal - no visible unwanted sidebar pairs
	Q7	One barely visible pair
	Q5	One easily visible pair
	Q3	Multiple visible pairs
	Q1	Splatter over much of the spectrum

Q-Signals For Amateur Radio Operators

Q-Sig	Message
QRA	What is the name of your station? The name of my station is ___.
QRB	How far are you from my station? I am ____ km from you station
QRD	Where are you bound and where are you coming from? I am bound ___ from ___.
QRG	Will you tell me my exact frequency? Your exact frequency is ___ kHz.
QRH	Does my frequency vary? Your frequency varies.
QRI	How is the tone of my transmission? The tone of your transmission is ___ (1-Good, 2-Variable, 3-Bad.)
QRJ	Are you receiving me badly? I cannot receive you, your signal is too weak.
QRK	What is the intelligibility of my signals? The intelligibility of your signals is ___ (1-Bad, 2-Poor, 3-Fair, 4-Good, 5-Excellent.)
QRL	Are you busy? I am busy, please do not interfere
QRM	Is my transmission being interfered with? Your transmission is being interfered with ___ (1-Nil, 2-Slightly, 3-Moderately, 4-Severly, 5-Extremely.)
QRN	Are you troubled by static? I am troubled by static ___ (1-5 as under QRM.)
QRO	Shall I increase power? Increase power.
QRP	Shall I decrease power? Decrease power.
QRQ	Shall I send faster? Send faster (___ WPM.)
QRR	Are you ready for automatic operation? I am ready for automatic operation. Send at ___ WPM.
QRS	Shall I send more slowly? Send more slowly (___ WPM.)
QRT	Shall I stop sending? Stop sending.
QRU	Have you anything for me? I have nothing for you.
QRV	Are you ready? I am ready.
QRW	Shall I inform ___ that you are calling? Please inform ___ that I am calling.
QRX	When will you call me again? I will call you again at ___ hours.
QRY	What is my turn? Your turn is numbered ___.
QRZ	Who is calling me? You are being called by ___.
QSA	What is the strength of my signals? The strength of your signals is ___ (1-Scarcely perceptible, 2-Weak, 3-Fairly Good, 4-Good, 5-Very Good.)
QSB	Are my signals fading? Your signals are fading.
QSD	Is my keying defective? Your keying is defective.
QSG	Shall I send ___ messages at a time? Send ___ messages at a time.
QSJ	What is the charge to be collected per word to ___ including your international telegraph charge? The charge to be collected per word is ___ including my international telegraph charge.
QSK	Can you hear me between you signals and if so can I break in on your transmission? I can hear you between my signals, break in on my transmission.
QSL	Can you acknowledge receipt? I am acknowledging receipt.
QSM	Shall I repeat the last message which I sent you? Repeat the last message.
QSN	Did you hear me on ___ kHz? I did hear you on ___ kHz.
QSO	Can you communicate with ___ direct or by relay? I can communicate with ___ direct (or by relay through ___.)
QSP	Will you relay to ___? I will relay to ___.
QSQ	Have you a doctor on board? (or is ___ on board?) I have a doctor on board (or ___ is on board.)
QSU	Shall I send or reply on this frequency? Send a series of Vs on this frequency.
QSV	Shall I send a series of Vs on this frequency? Send a series of Vs on this frequency.
QSW	Will you send on this frequency? I am going to send on this frequency.
QSY	Shall I change to another frequency? Change to another frequency.
QSZ	Shall I send each word or group more than once? Send each word or group twice (or ___ times.)
QTA	Shall I cancel message number ___? Cancel message number ___.
QTB	Do you agree with my counting of words? I do not agree with your counting of words. I will repeat the first letter or digit of each word or group.
QTC	How many messages have you to send? I have ___ messages for you.
QTE	What is my true bearing from you? Your true bearing from me is ___ degrees.
QTG	Will you send two dashes of 10 seconds each followed by your call sign? I am going to send two dashes of 10 seconds each followed by my call sign.
QTH	What is your location? My location is ___.
QTI	What is your true track? My true track is ___ degrees.
QTJ	What is your speed? My speed is ___ km/h.
QTL	What is your true heading? My true heading is ___ degrees.
QTN	At what time did you depart from ___? I departed from ___ at ___ hours.
QTO	Have you left dock (or port)? I have left dock (or port).
QTP	Are you going to enter dock (or port)? I am going to enter dock (or port.)
QTQ	Can you communicate with my station by means of the International Code of Signals? I am going to communicate with your station by means of the International Code of Signals.
QTR	What is the correct time? The time is ___.
QTS	Will you send your call sign for ___ minutes so that your frequency can be measured? I will send my call sign for ___ minutes so that my frequency may be measured.
QTU	What are the hours during which your station is open? My station is open from ___ hours to ___ hours.
QTV	Shall I stand guard for you on the frequency of ___ kHz? Stand guard for me on the frequency of ___ kHz.
QTX	Will you keep your station open for further communication with me? I will keep my station open for further communication with you.
QUA	Have you news of ___? I have news of ___.
QUB	Can you give me information concerning visibility, height of clouds, direction and velocity of ground wind at ___? Here is the information you requested...
QUC	What is the number of the last message you received from me? The number of the last message I received from you is ___.
QUD	Have you received the urgency signal sent by ___? I have received the urgency signal sent by ___.
QUF	Have you received the distress signal sent by ___? I have received the distress signal sent by ___.
QUG	Will you be forced to land? I am forced to land immediately.
QUH	Will you give me the present barometric pressure? The present barometric pressure is ___ (units).

Note that Q signals can take the form of a question when followed by a question mark.

Listen to Ham Radio Online From Tennessee

Well It looks like there is quite an interest in this online ham radio streaming. And thanks to QRZ and others, people now are becoming aware of what we are trying to do here. It's exciting people are coming from all over the world. Through the years I have been streaming in various ways, trying different methods. I have used all sorts of ways, and finally I came to believe that this way was the most user friendly working across all browsers with the least amount of difficulty. The only thing about it is, depending on Ustream to store the recorded sound clips and trusting that they will not go out of business one day and you face risking the possibility of losing these files. Besides that, I don't see a problem with it when it comes to streaming. Almost everyone already has the swf flash plug in downloaded.

So now, I thought it might be time to share, and try to stir up some interest with the hams. Also this is a great way to introduce ham radio to the non ham world. This internet streaming is the way I was made aware of ham radio myself. I heard those hams a' talking on there all together like and having such a great time, that I just had to get my ticket and join in.

I really think it would be great if a lot more of these receiving stations would be set up, all up and down the bands. Then we could all link up through a website, There are numerous servers available now, to make it possible to stream virtually to an unlimited audience. Since what we do is usually just audio anyway. There really isn't any reason why we can't accomplish this if enough people are interested. Most everyone has high speed internet and an extra unused receiver laying around somewhere. As intelligent as hams are I'm sure they can do this. And I would be glad to help out any way I can.

This is definitely a hobby in which I have learned so much. I think it has helped me to communicate better in the world since on the radio since, you cannot rely on your facial expressions to get your point across. You have to be more clear and it has been fun trying to learn how to do it. I do want to share this hobby, but not JUST the hobby, but the people, the hams themselves I wish to share with the world too. Many of them have already lived a lifetime and have so much to tell us about.

I'm sure I'm going to want to listen to 3980 and 3878. Really the best time for 3878 is from 4 in the morning to about 9:00 am. I can pick up 3840 in the mornings, but those guys are already being streamed by http://www.3819khz.net/ who is much closer to them. Usually the best time for 3980 is around 9:00 am, so that would work out well I think. Also 3878 has been trying to get on around 7:00 p.m. lately.